I hesitate to write about this as it is something that I have kept private all of my life but today was had such a monumental discovery that I have to do something. I came face to face with what I believe. I was raised in the Catholic Church and have never felt comfortable elsewhere. I took a survey once and the results were that I should be an Orthodox Jew or a Ba'hia, whatever that is. I was never comfortable with all of the acoutrements of the Catholic Church. The incense and the robes and the holy relics never made sense to me. I was once in church when they dragged out a huge wooden cross and brought it around for everyone to kiss. It is as close as I have ever come to panic. I don't live in a grass hut and worship feathers and stones or the sacred finger bones of Saint Barney. Things have to make sense to me in my own deluded way. The bearded finger pointer on the Sistine Chapel ceiling has always been an anathema to me. I know that God exists but, to me, God is a spirit and encompasses the entire Universe. I don't think that there is life after death. I once asked my Father about that. My Father went to church every Sunday but, as he was Protestant, he went alone. His Father had been a minister but my Father kept his beliefs close to himself. That is a good idea when your wife is Irish Catholic and has access to sharp objects while you are sleeping. I asked him about life after death and he replied "People who believe in that are just afraid to die.". I don't think that he was ever afraid of anything in his life. O.K. I will get to the point. Catholics believe in predestination. Every thing that is, everything that ever was, and everything that ever will be was decided at the moment of Creation. I accepted that when the nun explained it but immediately a question arose in my young brain. If everything is preordained, what is the sense of praying? Do you think that God is going to change the master plan because of a little whimpering? The second point is the church itself. Why do we go inside of a building to give thanks for the air we breathe, the blue sky, the trees, and the creatures around us. We totally shut ourselves off from the very things that we are thankful for. This does not leave me much of a religion as I reject church and prayer. I have always kept this to myself as stating it is like signing a document. There is no weaseling out of what you said and if you are wrong, well Pascal dealt with that. This was the state of affairs until yesterday. I find comfort in reading the Bible but have always gravitated to the Old Testament. Yesterday I was reading and for some reason went to Paul. THERE IT WAS! Everything is predestined and God is not inside something made by human hands. God is everywhere but there. Why should we go to church when even God won't go there? Wouldn't it be better to use the effort and resources to build shelter for the poor and feed them? There is also quite a bit about being wary of leaders of the church that build up a personality cult. Answers and justification, it is not often in life that we find these. There, I've said it and there is no going back! There is one nagging question left. I read that Jesus said "Remember, God is a spirit.". Not THE spirit but A spirit. Does this mean that there are a flock of others? I am not sure about Jesus. Everything that I read that is in red is wonderful and comforting but I have the nagging suspicion that some people put Jesus above God, not as part of God. Didn't Moses's tablets address this? Then there is the Trinity, a difficult concept to grasp. If it is part of your belief, never read Plato's writings on Socrates's conversation with Meno. I am surprised that anything of Plato's survived the bookwarmings of the middle ages. The Holy Spirit. Is the Holy Spirit God or part of God? This is a very dangerous area to tread as you can be guilty of a litany of sins and get forgiven but if you mess with the Holy Spirit you are doomed! Which brings me back to the basic question "Doomed to what?". Pascal, you were no comfort.
O.K., enough with the ranting and raving. I did some serious thinking yesterday and decided that posting thoughts at three in the morning is not a good idea. I also decided to stop reading the Bible. I am convinced that if I come up with the idea that all mice are left handed, I can find a verse somewhere in the Bible that will justify this thought. I have read a lot about religions. Japanese, Muslim, Chinese, Greek, Roman, the Pre-Columbian people of the Americas, Mediterranean, northern European, people of the Indian sub-continent, and others. There seems to be one common thread. There is a spirit that is the Creator. The Creator does not own a printing press or a pen. All that is written is the work of the hands of Man. I have always been suspicious of my fellow man. They have a tendency to make up stuff that justifies their way of living or thinking. History is replete with sacred things. Sacred bulls, sacred snakes, sacred sites, and sons of the god. So I will content myself with one thought. There is a spirit that is the Creator. The Creator is, always was, and always will be. I will be a spectator. I will watch the beauty of the world, I will eat from the bounty of the world, and, when my time comes, I will peacefully go to sleep. I will watch the work of the Creator and marvel at it. I only hope that, like Fenway Park, there is some sausage, pepper, and onion subs among the bounty.
there is so many thoughts i want to comment on... i was not raised catholic-but there are some things i find odd. my dad,catholic-married my mother in the episcopal church- so his church didn't recognize his marriage. They divorced-he was to remarry but the catholic church would't marry them because he was divorced.
so they recognized his divorce but not the marriage? odd.
I too get creeped out when crosses- or like here, a statue of Mary comes down for people to kiss her feet.... seem like idols to me- but no offense to others.
The bearded finger pointer- well my husband grew up thinking of God as old man winter who was spying on you to catch you being evil- so he grew up wiyh a fear of God and a sense of unworthiness. sad.
I do think however that there is life after death-having no way to prove it, I'll just share my thoughts.
a wonderful professor once told me that most of religion is man made. He couldn't come to the conclusion that there was no God- and pointed out to the fall folliage of beautiful maples, oaks....and a sunset. He said there has to be a God because of the incredible perfectness of the creation- God has to be something pretty awesome because of the beauty in this creation.
another professor talked about the messages that are given us in the creation that point to an afterlife...
for example the cyclic nature of the tree. new birth, mature growth, decay, death...and a return to new birth...
that message is in ever corner of creation.
I sometimes ponder WHAT is GOD? What IS the afterlife?
I don't know.
But sometimes I wonder about the sun. because of the burning bush....because of the GLORY being so bright...
and I wonder if we all become part of the spirit...some energy that is somehow related to the sun.
but I can't leave my childhood teachings about Jesus...
but I have left almost everything else theyve taught me.
I feel sometimes like I sense a presense of God...like you in the outdoors.
The bible has a lot of contradictions which leds me to conclude that LIFE is about balance. a little bit of this but not too much is probably the goal.
Man has done some wicked things in the name of scriptures- ok'd slavery, wars, witchburnings...and now what I call pimping; pastors living like kings while stealing from their flock.
for me spectator suits...to a point. somehow I long to be part of the Spirit...interconnected...
that need leads me to believe that I was created with an inner sense of such a reality.
we're thirsty, we need water... we're hungary, we need food....
we need God. to know that there is something bigger safer and stronger than us...to know that life is not in vain...that there is a plan and a future.
oooh, welcome to the black sheep fold of thinking, although maybe the seed itself was planted by you in my case, I remember you always saying that you would rather worship God at the beach in His fresh air in front of His sunset than in a stuffy mothball smelling room full or expensive yet somehow very uncomfortable furniture. I stopped regularly reading the Bible when I got divorced, you know the story, but it was hard to take that "any man who is with a divorced woman commits adultery", particularly because the gentleman in question was raised Southern Baptist, and I was pregnant with his child. Really pregnant, 8 months by the time I was actually officially divorced. And he was an usher at the giant McChurch we attended, the one with it's own recording studio and skateboard park and special coffeehouse lounge floor where you could get bagels and watch the sermon on a big screen tv and buy the pastor's sermon's you might have missed for 5 bucks a pop at the concession stand that sold Starbuck's coffee. The sermon that EVERY WEEK, at least while I attended, included a lengthy discussion about HOW THERE WAS NEVER ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR DIVORCE. Not child abuse, not spousal abuse.(in the case of physical abuse, one of you-the wife, I guess,if they are being beaten-should get a hotel room and see a counselor). Imagine how many women and children, beaten to death by angry men, shot and raped and tortured, could have been saved by this simple message? If only they had made it to church that week..... And ok, it's somewhat personal too. Because I was sitting in the congregation waiting for my babydaddy who, although he and his wife had been separated for 6 years and she lived with a man she called her fiancee, I knew he was very susceptible to fire and brimstone guilt, afraid that he would decide to dedicate himself to praying for their marriage, and I would be raising 3 toddlers on my own. And I was angry at this golfshirted, pudgy bellied man talking about his great hardships, which included GOING TO A COLLEGE HIS PARENTS DIDN'T APPROVE OF! Whew! Moving, I tell ya. The last service I attended, the pastor pulled down the giant movie screen and showed a film the church had made, complete with a "Takin' It To The Streets" theme song, that showed their missions(going to peoples' doors and telling them that God loves them!), and the shot that they showed featured the stone fountain entrance to one of the wealthiest communities in the county, when we have AN ENTIRE CARDBOARD CITY OF MEN, WOMAN AND CHILDREN LIVING BEHIND THE POST OFFICE, AND HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, AND CHILDREN ATTENDING SCHOOL THAT SOCIAL WORKERS KNOW ARE LIVING IN THEIR PARENTS CARS! In MA, if you go to the welfare office, I've heard, and tell them that you have no place to stay tonight, they will put you in a hotel. Here, I had to call a homeless shelter at one point, and they told me that they NEVER have room for a woman and three children, and recommended that I try to get a spot at a campground and live in my van. My point, though I wandered all over the place, is that I don't see works. I see an exclusive club. And I live in a neighborhood of some pretty extreme poverty, where the local beer-o doesn't attend church, but tells me when he thinks my stepkid is going down a bad path. Because he's been watching out for him. I guess I'm seeing that living like Jesus wants us too has very little to do with going to church to sit quietly in uncomfortable clothes and yell at my kids 200 times for being kids or banish them to the childrens' room staffed by people with no qualifications to care for children, other than they are Christians(so of course they are nice). OOOh, I really went off on a rant there. Like I often say, I think God has my picture in the very back of His wallet, He admits to me, but may not be too proud. But who knows? Shaun was just looking at this list of Christian practices which aren't biblical, including celebrating Christmas and Easter, and I remember you telling me that these holidays were created by missionaries to incorporate Yule and the vernal equinox. Arrrgh, you are the original blacksheep, bucko. So when I am faced with a large group of merchants in the temple, I have a hard time sitting still and shutting up. You should absolutely post at 3 am. My 87 year old neighbor, who is very English, totally with it, and says whatever is on her mind, told me about a couple of neighbors that confided in her-the man said his wife was crazy, but don't tell anyone. The wife said the husband was a drunk, but don't tell anyone. And they are the ultimate Leave It To Beaver old couple on outward appearances. And I grabbed this old lady's arm and said"Well thank God we let the crazy just all hang out, eh?" and we had a good laugh. If you need to rant and rave at 3am, come sit by me. You are never more entertaining, or fascinating, and Daddy, you are never hurting anyone.(Longest comment ever?)
Oooh, sorry. After 10pm might not be the best time for me to comment, as these are the Heineken hours. I hope I didn't embarrass you with my preachy longwindedness. And I am fine(anticipating next question in your mind). Thank God for spellcheck. Which I apparently didn't spell correctly.(I got "apparently" in one whack, though, so that counts for something, eh?)Love you, Dad.
6 comments:
I hesitate to write about this as it is something that I have kept private all of my life but today was had such a monumental discovery that I have to do something. I came face to face with what I believe.
I was raised in the Catholic Church and have never felt comfortable elsewhere. I took a survey once and the results were that I should be an Orthodox Jew or a Ba'hia, whatever that is. I was never comfortable with all of the acoutrements of the Catholic Church. The incense and the robes and the holy relics never made sense to me. I was once in church when they dragged out a huge wooden cross and brought it around for everyone to kiss. It is as close as I have ever come to panic. I don't live in a grass hut and worship feathers and stones or the sacred finger bones of Saint Barney. Things have to make sense to me in my own deluded way. The bearded finger pointer on the Sistine Chapel ceiling has always been an anathema to me. I know that God exists but, to me, God is a spirit and encompasses the entire Universe.
I don't think that there is life after death. I once asked my Father about that. My Father went to church every Sunday but, as he was Protestant, he went alone. His Father had been a minister but my Father kept his beliefs close to himself. That is a good idea when your wife is Irish Catholic and has access to sharp objects while you are sleeping.
I asked him about life after death and he replied "People who believe in that are just afraid to die.". I don't think that he was ever afraid of anything in his life.
O.K. I will get to the point. Catholics believe in predestination. Every thing that is, everything that ever was, and everything that ever will be was decided at the moment of Creation. I accepted that when the nun explained it but immediately a question arose in my young brain. If everything is preordained, what is the sense of praying? Do you think that God is going to change the master plan because of a little whimpering?
The second point is the church itself. Why do we go inside of a building to give thanks for the air we breathe, the blue sky, the trees, and the creatures around us. We totally shut ourselves off from the very things that we are thankful for.
This does not leave me much of a religion as I reject church and prayer. I have always kept this to myself as stating it is like signing a document. There is no weaseling out of what you said and if you are wrong, well Pascal dealt with that.
This was the state of affairs until yesterday. I find comfort in reading the Bible but have always gravitated to the Old Testament. Yesterday I was reading and for some reason went to Paul. THERE IT WAS! Everything is predestined and God is not inside something made by human hands. God is everywhere but there. Why should we go to church when even God won't go there? Wouldn't it be better to use the effort and resources to build shelter for the poor and feed them? There is also quite a bit about being wary of leaders of the church that build up a personality cult.
Answers and justification, it is not often in life that we find these. There, I've said it and there is no going back!
There is one nagging question left. I read that Jesus said "Remember, God is a spirit.". Not THE spirit but A spirit. Does this mean that there are a flock of others? I am not sure about Jesus. Everything that I read that is in red is wonderful and comforting but I have the nagging suspicion that some people put Jesus above God, not as part of God. Didn't Moses's tablets address this? Then there is the Trinity, a difficult concept to grasp. If it is part of your belief, never read Plato's writings on Socrates's conversation with Meno. I am surprised that anything of Plato's survived the bookwarmings of the middle ages.
The Holy Spirit. Is the Holy Spirit God or part of God? This is a very dangerous area to tread as you can be guilty of a litany of sins and get forgiven but if you mess with the Holy Spirit you are doomed! Which brings me back to the basic question "Doomed to what?". Pascal, you were no comfort.
O.K., enough with the ranting and raving. I did some serious thinking yesterday and decided that posting thoughts at three in the morning is not a good idea. I also decided to stop reading the Bible. I am convinced that if I come up with the idea that all mice are left handed, I can find a verse somewhere in the Bible that will justify this thought.
I have read a lot about religions. Japanese, Muslim, Chinese, Greek, Roman, the Pre-Columbian people of the Americas, Mediterranean, northern European, people of the Indian sub-continent, and others. There seems to be one common thread. There is a spirit that is the Creator. The Creator does not own a printing press or a pen. All that is written is the work of the hands of Man.
I have always been suspicious of my fellow man. They have a tendency to make up stuff that justifies their way of living or thinking. History is replete with sacred things. Sacred bulls, sacred snakes, sacred sites, and sons of the god.
So I will content myself with one thought. There is a spirit that is the Creator. The Creator is, always was, and always will be. I will be a spectator. I will watch the beauty of the world, I will eat from the bounty of the world, and, when my time comes, I will peacefully go to sleep. I will watch the work of the Creator and marvel at it.
I only hope that, like Fenway Park, there is some sausage, pepper, and onion subs among the bounty.
there is so many thoughts i want to comment on...
i was not raised catholic-but there are some things i find odd.
my dad,catholic-married my mother in the episcopal church- so his church didn't recognize his marriage. They divorced-he was to remarry but the catholic church would't marry them because he was divorced.
so they recognized his divorce but not the marriage? odd.
I too get creeped out when crosses- or like here, a statue of Mary comes down for people to kiss her feet.... seem like idols to me- but no offense to others.
The bearded finger pointer- well my husband grew up thinking of God as old man winter who was spying on you to catch you being evil- so he grew up wiyh a fear of God and a sense of unworthiness.
sad.
I do think however that there is life after death-having no way to prove it, I'll just share my thoughts.
a wonderful professor once told me that most of religion is man made. He couldn't come to the conclusion that there was no God- and pointed out to the fall folliage of beautiful maples, oaks....and a sunset. He said there has to be a God because of the incredible perfectness of the creation- God has to be something pretty awesome because of the beauty in this creation.
another professor talked about the messages that are given us in the creation that point to an afterlife...
for example the cyclic nature of the tree.
new birth, mature growth, decay, death...and a return to new birth...
that message is in ever corner of creation.
I sometimes ponder WHAT is GOD? What IS the afterlife?
I don't know.
But sometimes I wonder about the sun. because of the burning bush....because of the GLORY being so bright...
and I wonder if we all become part of the spirit...some energy that is somehow related to the sun.
but I can't leave my childhood teachings about Jesus...
but I have left almost everything else theyve taught me.
I feel sometimes like I sense a presense of God...like you in the outdoors.
The bible has a lot of contradictions which leds me to conclude that LIFE is about balance. a little bit of this but not too much is probably the goal.
Man has done some wicked things in the name of scriptures- ok'd slavery, wars, witchburnings...and now what I call pimping; pastors living like kings while stealing from their flock.
for me spectator suits...to a point. somehow I long to be part of the Spirit...interconnected...
that need leads me to believe that I was created with an inner sense of such a reality.
we're thirsty, we need water...
we're hungary, we need food....
we need God. to know that there is something bigger safer and stronger than us...to know that life is not in vain...that there is a plan and a future.
but it is not in the modern american church.
oooh, welcome to the black sheep fold of thinking, although maybe the seed itself was planted by you in my case, I remember you always saying that you would rather worship God at the beach in His fresh air in front of His sunset than in a stuffy mothball smelling room full or expensive yet somehow very uncomfortable furniture. I stopped regularly reading the Bible when I got divorced, you know the story, but it was hard to take that "any man who is with a divorced woman commits adultery", particularly because the gentleman in question was raised Southern Baptist, and I was pregnant with his child. Really pregnant, 8 months by the time I was actually officially divorced. And he was an usher at the giant McChurch we attended, the one with it's own recording studio and skateboard park and special coffeehouse lounge floor where you could get bagels and watch the sermon on a big screen tv and buy the pastor's sermon's you might have missed for 5 bucks a pop at the concession stand that sold Starbuck's coffee. The sermon that EVERY WEEK, at least while I attended, included a lengthy discussion about HOW THERE WAS NEVER ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR DIVORCE. Not child abuse, not spousal abuse.(in the case of physical abuse, one of you-the wife, I guess,if they are being beaten-should get a hotel room and see a counselor). Imagine how many women and children, beaten to death by angry men, shot and raped and tortured, could have been saved by this simple message? If only they had made it to church that week.....
And ok, it's somewhat personal too. Because I was sitting in the congregation waiting for my babydaddy who, although he and his wife had been separated for 6 years and she lived with a man she called her fiancee, I knew he was very susceptible to fire and brimstone guilt, afraid that he would decide to dedicate himself to praying for their marriage, and I would be raising 3 toddlers on my own. And I was angry at this golfshirted, pudgy bellied man talking about his great hardships, which included GOING TO A COLLEGE HIS PARENTS DIDN'T APPROVE OF! Whew! Moving, I tell ya. The last service I attended, the pastor pulled down the giant movie screen and showed a film the church had made, complete with a "Takin' It To The Streets" theme song, that showed their missions(going to peoples' doors and telling them that God loves them!), and the shot that they showed featured the stone fountain entrance to one of the wealthiest communities in the county, when we have AN ENTIRE CARDBOARD CITY OF MEN, WOMAN AND CHILDREN LIVING BEHIND THE POST OFFICE, AND HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, AND CHILDREN ATTENDING SCHOOL THAT SOCIAL WORKERS KNOW ARE LIVING IN THEIR PARENTS CARS! In MA, if you go to the welfare office, I've heard, and tell them that you have no place to stay tonight, they will put you in a hotel. Here, I had to call a homeless shelter at one point, and they told me that they NEVER have room for a woman and three children, and recommended that I try to get a spot at a campground and live in my van. My point, though I wandered all over the place, is that I don't see works. I see an exclusive club. And I live in a neighborhood of some pretty extreme poverty, where the local beer-o doesn't attend church, but tells me when he thinks my stepkid is going down a bad path. Because he's been watching out for him. I guess I'm seeing that living like Jesus wants us too has very little to do with going to church to sit quietly in uncomfortable clothes and yell at my kids 200 times for being kids or banish them to the childrens' room staffed by people with no qualifications to care for children, other than they are Christians(so of course they are nice). OOOh, I really went off on a rant there. Like I often say, I think God has my picture in the very back of His wallet, He admits to me, but may not be too proud. But who knows? Shaun was just looking at this list of Christian practices which aren't biblical, including celebrating Christmas and Easter, and I remember you telling me that these holidays were created by missionaries to incorporate Yule and the vernal equinox. Arrrgh, you are the original blacksheep, bucko. So when I am faced with a large group of merchants in the temple, I have a hard time sitting still and shutting up. You should absolutely post at 3 am. My 87 year old neighbor, who is very English, totally with it, and says whatever is on her mind, told me about a couple of neighbors that confided in her-the man said his wife was crazy, but don't tell anyone. The wife said the husband was a drunk, but don't tell anyone. And they are the ultimate Leave It To Beaver old couple on outward appearances. And I grabbed this old lady's arm and said"Well thank God we let the crazy just all hang out, eh?" and we had a good laugh. If you need to rant and rave at 3am, come sit by me. You are never more entertaining, or fascinating, and Daddy, you are never hurting anyone.(Longest comment ever?)
"Like I often say, I think God has my picture in the very back of His wallet, He admits to me, but may not be too proud."
somehow I highly doubt this is the case. I don't pretend to know the mind of God (anymore) but I highly doubt this has even a hint of truth to it.....
Oooh, sorry. After 10pm might not be the best time for me to comment, as these are the Heineken hours. I hope I didn't embarrass you with my preachy longwindedness. And I am fine(anticipating next question in your mind). Thank God for spellcheck. Which I apparently didn't spell correctly.(I got "apparently" in one whack, though, so that counts for something, eh?)Love you, Dad.
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